"You scratch my back, I scratch yours?"-Shin Corp to Temasek

last SG · 2006-02-03T15:11:01+00:00

Once again, Temasek Holding’s Money is NOT singaporeans money! TH is a private commercial entity set up by the Ministry of Finance.

shade343 SG

When you pay taxes, it is no longer your money. It is the government's money. Since it is the government's money, the government can do what it likes with it legally.

shade343 SG

Collecting Taxes, duties and whatever lah.

Atobe SG

How would you know if "Temasek hasn't been taken for a ride" ?

From the "historical fact" of the attitude of the CEO of TH, the Micropolis disaster was already a telling story of total incompetence and inexperience that cost Singapore to lose $500 MILLION.

In the last Thai adventure by our Singapore DBS Bank - from an archived Asianweek Report - the experience was a painful one:

"DBS thought it knew all about Thai Danu, having had close links for years. But after the acquisition, the Thai bank's loan portfolio and Thailand's economy turned out to be worse than expected, which helped slash the Singapore bank's 1998 profits by half. "The due diligence effort was inadequate," says DBS chief executive John Olds, "because senior management [at DBS] had known these [Thai Danu] people historically, because nobody knew what the depth of the Crisis was going to be, but probably most importantly because they'd never done a major acquisition before." DBS has since handled the takeover of POSBank in Singapore and Kwong On Bank in Hong Kong much more smoothly."
(Click here for full article)

This time around it has to be a "Singapore Problem" in view of the callous manner in which the No 2 Family of Thailand stand to benefit a windfall of THREE BILLION DOLLARS and in the manner that the deal was transacted.

Is this another cosy relationship transaction - as in the DBS experience ?

This matter has not received the vigorous and critical review by Singaporeans or the local Newspapers, as the Thais have given to this shady transactions.

The Singapore News Group had been more vigorous and unrelenting in their close-up investigation of Durai and the NKF - then it will dare to do any investigative towards the Singapore First Family - even when so much is at stake.

Should I insult your intelligence further, or have you done enough damage to your "no brainer, one-liners" bravado ?

If you know nothing about 'due diligence' in a huge takeover attempt - what are you doing here commenting on the opinions of others ?

What has a tertiary education in economics that you have boasted in having done to your understanding of the World of Commerce ?

Read the referenced post again.

The Thais are unhappy that Temasek is buying a National Asset in Shin Corp, and the following was mentioned in my second post in this thread :

Prior to the completion of the take-over, the Thais were not in favor of Shin Corp being sold to Temasek, and negative public expressions have been boiling over amongst the Thai Citizens, Politicians and even their Law Society since late 2005.
(Click here for summary list of newsheadlines in Bangkok Post)

Originally posted by Salman:
Nope, it will not.

and even if it does, it was not their responsibility, they are clean and the Thais are not after them.

Shin Corp services is dependent on the Thais supporting the products that are marketed.

What is the worth if the Thais boycott the company after the takeover by Temasek Holdings ?

Read the referenced site given above, and anyone will see the furor that Temasek Holdings has created in Thailand, as they have attempted to do so in Australia and in the USA.

Originally posted by shade343:
If you read the news, the thais have also voiced their concerns that Teamasek holdings could possibly use the satelites to spy on Thailand....so TH is also under flak.

Response by Salman to post above:
Thats not Temasek's problem.

What else can we make out from your "no brainer, one-liners" ?

From a March 2002 study of Thailand commissioned by the International Telecommunication Union, it was reported that Shin Corp has a license to operate a satellite service for only Thirty Years expiring in 2021 - which is about 15 years away.

Shin Corp's business span across several businesses - phones, satellites and airlines and it was when Shin Corp's shares reached an 11-year high that Temasek made its pitch to take over 49.5% share of Shin Corp for 79 BILLION BAHT.

Temasek Holding will soon have to make a public offer to buy all the shares from the remaining shareholders.

Have we seen the end of this flow of Singapore money ?

It was reported in the Taipei Times that competition has eroded the market share of a wholly owned subsidiary - which also a Primary Asset - of Shin Corp and is Thailand's third-largest company.

Shin Corp's net income in the third quarter of 2005 had dropped by 10 percent to 1.98 BILLION BAHT.

With a take over of Shin Corp not being accepted by the Thais - how will the investment turn out when the Thais boycott the services or products from the newly owned TH-Shin Corp ?

It is odd that after having turned Air Asia away - when Air Asia tried to enter Singapore travel market - Temasek is now overseeing the portfolio of Air Asia Thailand.

charlize SG

Don't worry lah.

Anything goes wrong or if money is lost, it will all be "tuition fees". Laughing

Lowclassman SG

In fact most the tomasick's elites are enjoying life out there.

strikefreedom SG

that why parent always say STUDY STUDY STUDY or next time grow up be a RUBBISH MAN Mr. Green

Lowclassman SG

Originally posted by Atobe:
The sale of the giant Thai Telecoms operator - Shin Corp - to Temasek is creating a Political Uproar in Thailand due to shady deals that are now surfacing - as reported in the [b]Bangkok Post. Click here for full article.

The Thai Prime Minister - Mr Thaksin Shinawatra has denied his direct involvement and ownership of Shin Corp since he became the Prime Minister of Thailand; and had stated that his son - Mr Panthongthae - is the owner of the Holding Company - named "Ample Rich" - since December 2000 and that even the Stock Exchange of Thailand is "aware" of this status.

According to the Bangkok Post, the Thai Prime Minister told cabinet ministers that he had set up Ample Rich in the British Virgin Islands only because he wanted to invest in the US stock market and that the subsequent transfer of Ample Rich to his son did not violate any law.

As matters now appear, it seems that the company had reportedly sold 392 million shares of Shin Corp to a Mr Panthongthae and his sister Pinthongta at one baht a share on Jan 20.

The two then sold all their holdings in the telecom giant to Singapore's Temasek Holdings on Jan 23at 49.25 baht a share.

This transaction had created an uproar amongst the Thai Citizens, should we be concerned that our own Temasek may have been taken for a ride in this 'get rich' scheme ?

Did we "scratch" their back, and got our's in return ?

Will Singaporeans make any call for an enquiry to the dealings that Temasek had made in paying such a huge sum of our National Surplus to gain control of another Country's "national asset" ?

Thailand is supposed to be a "Third World" country, and yet they enjoy the Press Freedom of the "First World"; while our Singaporean "First World" Newspapers only make "Third World"news on Singaporeans flashing within their own homes.

[/b]

Tomasick paid 73 billions baht for shin corp shares. net income for shin corp was 1.98 billion baht.....so I wonder how long would tomasick recover its cost on this investment? 73 billion baht divided by 1.98 billion baht = 37 years ?

Don't forget, thailand is in its boom years at the moment....what if the world or thailand fall into recession?

strikefreedom SG

recession do you use ur handphone to call? also paying that amount it include their satellite. and it not cheap to own one.

below is extract from wikipedia on Shin Corp.

Advance Info Service PCL (AIS; also Advanced Info Service) is Thailand's largest GSM mobile phone operator with 15.815 million customers as of June 2005

as of June 2005 there is 15mil+ of ppl using their handphone network. this is about 3 time the population of singapore. long term running it profitable what. Mr. Green

geodome SG

it is a good business proposal.

if im running singtel, i will do the same.

taking over one country's national asset is not enough.

i look forward to the day a Singapore GLC will take over strategic American companies such as AT&T.

Atobe SG

If there is anything worth buying it will be Singapore Inc. - with its hidden reserves, and a list of assets string out like a pearl necklace around the globe, and with each holding perhaps part of the Singapore National Reserves.

If Singapore is allowed to buy the crown jewel of other countries, will the Singapore Govenment a.k.a the Ruling Political Party reciprocate the attempts by other foreign companies to buy over the likes of GIC or Temasek Holdings or SIA or DBS or SingTel ?

SnowFlag SG

Clever ppl dun need tuitions Mr. Green

strikefreedom SG

it not about if you can buy or not, it about are you willing to sell. ppl can give an offer, but whether to sell it another matter isn't it?

Atobe SG

Originally posted by strikefreedom:
it not about if you can buy or not, it about are you willing to sell. ppl can give an offer, but whether to sell it another matter isn't it?

Ever heard of 'making an offer that no one can refused' Laughing

The price paid that Temasek paid to the "Family Treasury" of the Thai Prime Minister, was such an offer that got him to let go of his own 'baby' - Shin Corp - which he nurtured for the last THIRTY YEARS.

What price will it take for the Singapore FIRST FAMILY to let go off anyone of the Singaporean GEMS that the FIRST FAMILY seems to treat as their own 'heirlooms' ?

Atobe SG

With passing of each day, the storm gets stronger, clearing the air for the main issues are beginning to crystallize :

Public 'may turn against S'pore'
Feb 7, 2006
The Straits Times

BANGKOK - A GROUP of academics yesterday warned that there was a risk of public opinion in Thailand turning against Singapore regarding the Shin Corp-Temasek Holdings deal.

In a discussion at Chulalongkorn University, Professor Thitinan Pongsudhirak said: 'Temasek is not an ordinary company, it is owned by a foreign government. This has implications for the Singapore government...Shin Corp is seen here as tainted assets; in due diligence it is surprising that Temasek did not consider the fallout.'

He said Temasek and the Singapore government had become unintended players in Thai politics.

'Temasek needs to clarify its plans and intentions, especially regarding Shin Sat and its applications, and iTV's editorial stance and management' he said.

Shin Sat and iTV are part of Shin Corp's non-core assets. Temasek has declined to say whether it will divest stakes in these businesses.

Shin Sat operates satellite frequencies given to Thailand by the International Telecommunications Union, making it a Thai asset that is now owned by the Singapore government, Prof Thitinan said.

Broadcaster iTV has a long history in Thailand and there are now concerns about foreign interference in local broadcasts.

Senior law professor Suchit Bunbongkarn said: 'The public is convinced that Singapore thinks only of its own interests.'

He added, however, that it is difficult to say whether this negative attitude towards Singapore will be short-lived or will continue.

Professor Suchit was among seven Constitutional Court judges who in 2001 voted against Mr Thaksin in a case in which the premier was accused of misdeclaring his assets. Mr Thaksin won by one vote.

Singapore's embassy on Sathon Road in Bangkok's business district was the target of a small demonstration last week.

And some xenophobic commentaries against Singapore have begun appearing in the Thai media and on radio shows. A column in the Thai-language Kom Chad Luek paper this week accused Mr Thaksin of behaving like a representative of the Singapore government.

From an alternative report - Temasek takes on a 'let go, let grow' business approach dated January 27, 2005 - it seems that lack of due diligence seems to be a hallmark in the transactions of multi-million dolllar transactions of Temasek:

One recent investment that soured: China Aviation Oil, which in November reported US$550 million of losses from trading oil derivatives. The company, a unit of Beijing-based China Aviation Oil Holding, which supplies jet fuel to airlines flying through China's airports, was first listed on the Stock Exchange of Singapore in 2001. Temasek was among the investors who bought a total of 25 percent of the company, says Temasek spokeswoman Eva Ho.

In 2004, the Singapore unit bet that oil prices would fall. As its trading losses mounted and oil prices reached record highs, the Beijing parent brought forward the sale of another 15 percent stake to European and Asian investors in October, raising US$108 million to cover margin calls, according to chief executive Chen Jiulin.

Again, Temasek bought some of the stock, ending up with a total of less than 2 percent, according to spokeswoman Ho. On November 29, China Aviation Oil filed for bankruptcy protection. On January 24, it asked creditors to write off 59 percent of the US$530 million they are owed.

``The general lesson is that when investing in China, the focus on quality and due diligence has to be paramount,'' Dohadwala says. ``China Aviation is listed in Singapore, but it's still a Chinese company.''

It will seem that the sheer size of Singapore's Reserve has caused the Elite to be callous in the manner that Singapore's hard earned reserves is spent.

Paying 16x the estimated Shin Corp prospective earnings for 2006.

Paying 3.3x the book value in the take over of Dao Heng Bank in 2002.

Temasek owned Companies have also paid MILLIONS to hold a small stakes in Indonesia companies at some questionable valuations:

Singapore Telecom paid US$1.1 BILLION for a 36% stake in Telkomsei - Indonesia's largest cellular operator;

Singapore Technologies Telemedia paid US$594 MILLION for a 42% stake in Indonesian telecoms operator - PT Indosat.

Singaporeans have not had any opportunity to voice our concerns in this matters, as all issues are classified as State Secrets.

In a country, where even the Elected President has no authority to even ask for the accounting of the Country's Reserves, is there any hope for the accounting of the National Reserves ?

strikefreedom SG

lol are you joking with me of course i do and i do see it too. so far any buying over of organisation such as Shin Corp and Optus are offer that no one can refused.

but please be fair to them as their main agenda is to aquire business from oversea that can generate profit rather then for their own gain. what difference between an opportunist and a real successful businessman is opportunist will cash in if a very good offer come in while a real successful businessman will keep buying over companies that can generate profit for years to come. in short one is short sighted and the other is far sighted.

so far the price paid for those companies are above the valuation of the company itself, but they are the one that can really generate profit and don't forget the company is a well establish one in term of market share and the infrastructures that they own.

it seem that you are bias against them in everything no matter what they do be it right or wrong isn't it? and if that the case, maybe you should be doing something about ur life like planning to migrate etc now rather then complaining this and that in forum isn't it? as you know that nothing you say will ever change the decision make by ur favourite part aka PAP Mr. Green

the thing about ppl is they never say a word of thanks if they stand to gain, but when they stand to lose, they will curse and swear at them and if law permit i think they would gladly give them a blanket party.

Atobe SG

Originally posted by strikefreedom:
lol are you joking with me of course i do and i do see it too. so far any buying over of organisation such as Shin Corp and Optus are offer that no one can refused.

Yes, at a price that is way above market at each transaction.

but please be fair to them as their main agenda is to aquire business from oversea that can generate profit rather then for their own gain. what difference between an opportunist and a real successful businessman is opportunist will cash in if a very good offer come in while a real successful businessman will keep buying over companies that can generate profit for years to come. in short one is short sighted and the other is far sighted.

Where do you think the funds are coming from that are used in all these foreign transactions ?

Are these funds the Annual Revenue Surplus transferred from the Finance Ministry to GIC and Temasek - funds that could have benefitted Singaporeans in so many beneficial collective programs ?

Who should own those profits generated by funds collected from the Singapore Citizens ? Is the Elected President entitled to access the information to the Annual Profits made by the foreign companies that build on the Annual Revenue Surplus generated from Singaporeans ?

so far the price paid for those companies are above the valuation of the company itself, but they are the one that can really generate profit and don't forget the company is a well establish one in term of market share and the infrastructures that they own.

How certain are we that these foreign acquisitions in the face of newer competition from new technologies that will supercede present profits generated by current level of mobile phone and satellite services ?

In order to maintain profitability, these foreign acquisitions will need additional capital to upgrade and implement new technologies.

Where will be the source of these funds for such works to be accomplished ?

The only source is further transfer from the Annual Revenue Surplus collected from Singapore Citizens.

it seem that you are bias against them in everything no matter what they do be it right or wrong isn't it? and if that the case, maybe you should be doing something about ur life like planning to migrate etc now rather then complaining this and that in forum isn't it? as you know that nothing you say will ever change the decision make by ur favourite part aka PAP

Why are narrow minded views carry the opinion that loyal Singaporeans should migrate rather then stay to help in the progress of Singapore ?

Is this due to FORTY YEARS of brainwashing that all who hold alternative views should vacate this Island Republic for the continued abuse by the POWER OF ONE ?

Does anyone with anything to say "ever change the decision by 'a.k.a Ruling Political Party' " ?

However, whatever that is said can always help to educate those with no access to information, and we can lend support in providing information to the Opposition Party.

the thing about ppl is they never say a word of thanks if they stand to gain, but when they stand to lose, they will curse and swear at them and if law permit i think they would gladly give them a blanket party.

Your observation of "Human Ingratitude" is certainly true - and it also speaks of the "ingratitude" of the Ruling Political Party in the broken promises and changed positions after the Elections; and after policies have achieved its purpose, do not withdraw the policies for purpose of collecting more revenues.

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